Alberta Supra Club  

All Albums / Galleries Timeslip Database
Go Back   Alberta Supra Club >  Buy / sell / trade >  Miscellaneous / other

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Unread 09-22-2008, 03:15 PM   #11
annoyingrob
Senior Member
 
annoyingrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SW Calgary
Posts: 2,009
The MS isn't going on my Supra. It's going on my turbo truck. The Supra is quite happy making ridiculous amounts of power with the V-Pro. Hopefully with a MHG, CT26, IC, and some head porting it will make 200whp.

I have a guy willing to give me an old P4 chip. Assuming it's a socket 478 chip, I can use it to fix one of my old laptops.
__________________
yes.
annoyingrob is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-22-2008, 04:07 PM   #12
JZS_RCTS
Senior Member
 
JZS_RCTS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: calgary
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by azrael View Post
The MS in question is for his '86 Yota Truck, which makes an astonishing 135 hp stock. I can't imagine he's shooting for an ultimate driving machine. (Get it? Like a BMW?)

I also wonder if Reg has tuned anything equipped with an MSII, because that processor is quite capable. The only thing he ever whined to me about when it came to MS was that it didn't have the resolution to accurately tune a high performance engine. (Which, I might add, there is significant evidence and examples to the contrary.)

You personally think it's a horrible system - How long have you worked for Reg, anyways, and really, how much time have you spent using it, or reading about it? How many MS-equipped vehicles have YOU tuned? I will grant that MegaTune isn't the most flashy piece of software, and it may not operate in as polished a fashion as whatever AEM/GReddy/HKS/Motec have designed, but keep these simple facts in mind:

1) If an expensive aftermarket standalone does it, MS can, in theory, do it as well.
2) The software written for MS is available free of charge, in both compiled and source forms - this makes it infinitely expandable, especially in conjunction with
3) The people who have built and installed MegaSquirt in their cars are technically competent, and likely well-versed in either electronics or computers. As such, most of us don't need fancy tuning software that we would call 'over-engineered.' MegaTune does what needs to be done, and it does it effectively, and most of all, we know and understand exactly what it is doing any how it works. In the situation where one is tuning their car for performance, I thought that was the ultimate goal - control over and understanding of what your motor is doing.
4) MegaSquirt is a fully functional, very capable standalone engine management system that is available for ~$500 in kit form. Can you even buy an EBC made by HKS or GReddy for that much?

Just some food for thought.

I'm going to go try to fix my P166 laptop today.
i thought he was going to use MS for the Supra. You don't have to be a dick and get all defensive about it just because you like it and i don't. if you like it, and you like tuning with it, then who am i to tell you otherwise. just because it works fine for you, doesn't mean other ECU's don't have more to offer. if ms is soo good you would see ms units on real race cars, not some garage built pos that just happens to run half decent. for Rob's application with the truck MS is fine, not for the Supra though.

Just some food for thought.

i have tuned 1 msII equipped vehicle. i hated the software, the megamanual is a piece of shit, its WAY slower than other EMS's, less resolution, smaller memory, has fewer outputs, less auxilary outputs, cant control VTC etc. Haltech, Motec, F Con, PFC, all have local dealer support, all MS has is websites and references. The non OEM fitment is also a pain in the ass.

you get what you pay for.
JZS_RCTS is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-22-2008, 04:08 PM   #13
JZS_RCTS
Senior Member
 
JZS_RCTS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: calgary
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by annoyingrob View Post
The MS isn't going on my Supra. It's going on my turbo truck. The Supra is quite happy making ridiculous amounts of power with the V-Pro. Hopefully with a MHG, CT26, IC, and some head porting it will make 200whp.

I have a guy willing to give me an old P4 chip. Assuming it's a socket 478 chip, I can use it to fix one of my old laptops.
what motor are you running in the truck?
JZS_RCTS is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-22-2008, 05:05 PM   #14
Funkycheeze
Senior Member
 
Funkycheeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,747
It's a 22-RTE

My experience is that, as far as standalone ECU's go, it is 95% tuning, and 5% hardware.

So unless the hardware is total shit, someone who knows what they are doing can get a pretty decent tune out of it. The MS is a hell of alot more advanced than a stock 7MGTE ECU, and alot of people make decent power with a nicely running engine using only the 550/lex AFM upgrade.

Frankly, real race cars (which I have worked on, designed and built) tend to use the much more stripped down engine management units, such as MS, due to the fact that they don't see as wide of a load range or operating conditions as a road car - for them, if it makes good power at WOT over the high rev range between redline shifts, and stable power above 50% throttle in those same rev ranges, that is enough. Hell, alot of the smaller classes use alpha-n metering, which just uses TPS and RPM, no airflow meter or MAP sensor required.
__________________
Funkycheeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-22-2008, 06:17 PM   #15
Supra_devil
moderator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: edmonton north
Posts: 1,946
Send a message via MSN to Supra_devil
Quote:
Originally Posted by JZS_RCTS View Post
you get what you pay for.

in the case of MS, you get what YOU are capable of making, the hardware is almost never an issue (assuming that you assembled the board to do what you want in the first place), and the software is versatile enough to do whatever you want, providing your willing to take the time to set the parameters, which i will grant can be time consuming.

i know a few people using MS and by and large they love it, and have no more issues than people i know with other engine management systems. the only reason i will choose something else over it is if i can buy a plug and play w/ a base tune, simply for convienence.

Rob, if i stop in cow town on my way to washington, if/when i go, i will bring my old labtop down and you can take a look at it and see if you want it. If you're still looking that is.
__________________
amsoil products, custom fab, sales and installs. PM with any questions or text/call me at (780)266-9691

Glenn
Supra_devil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-22-2008, 07:02 PM   #16
azrael
Super Moderator
 
azrael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by JZS_RCTS View Post
You don't have to be a dick and get all defensive about it just because you like it and i don't.
I dislike the RCTS school of thought and training. I dislike that 99% of Supra owners are assholes who like to brag about how much all of their shit cost and how much they paid someone to build their car for them, and how incredibly fast it is. I dislike the general lack of effort and willingness to learn that seems to exist around these cars.

If that makes me a 'dick' or 'defensive,' then yes, I am, and I'm okay with that.
__________________
Keegan.
1990 Toyota Supra Turbo, White/Maroon Leather, 5-speed, Targa
azrael is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-22-2008, 07:35 PM   #17
Funkycheeze
Senior Member
 
Funkycheeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,747
My point is that, while V-pro and some of the $$$ systems are better from a purely theoretical standpoint, 99% of people don't need, and can't make use of the extra benifits they offer over a cheaper system like AEM or MS
__________________
Funkycheeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-22-2008, 07:40 PM   #18
Dan_Gyoba
Senior Member
 
Dan_Gyoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 3,771
Send a message via ICQ to Dan_Gyoba Send a message via Yahoo to Dan_Gyoba Send a message via Skype™ to Dan_Gyoba
Well, the laptop that I have won't do the trick.

@Keegan: I don't think that's a Supra owner thing. Most of the Supra owners that I know are far more likely to get their hands dirty working on things than spend large amounts of money paying someone else to make it fast... But then practically all of the Supra owners that I know are club members, or drive stock. I would, however, suspect that what you describe is a majority of "tuners" who drive fast small cars.

While there are certainly people who put in the time and effort to built up a fast car, but I think that these are probably in a general minority. Most enthusiasts don't have the desire to learn everything needed to properly build and tune a high performance car, they have more interest in driving a high performance car, so it's easier to pay someone who has a proven track record, and have a turnkey performance car.

99% of Supra owners though?

As to the capabilities of the MS, It's obviously capable of more than reasonable performance, as it's been done again and again. There may be better systems. Maybe some with better software or failsafes.
__________________
In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.

'89NA-T, 499,XXX kms
Part-out in process, RIP

'90T, 289,XXX kms
What I need to fix:
Stereo construction needed.
7M-GTE needs to be broken in
Should install Walbro fuel pump

eBay F1 clutch pics.
NA-T engine swap pics
Driftmotion Action Stage 3 clutch pics
Dan_Gyoba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-23-2008, 01:23 AM   #19
JZS_RCTS
Senior Member
 
JZS_RCTS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: calgary
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by azrael View Post
I dislike the RCTS school of thought and training. I dislike that 99% of Supra owners are assholes who like to brag about how much all of their shit cost and how much they paid someone to build their car for them, and how incredibly fast it is. I dislike the general lack of effort and willingness to learn that seems to exist around these cars.

If that makes me a 'dick' or 'defensive,' then yes, I am, and I'm okay with that.

i hate the fact that most people that use megasquirt, have never used anything GOOD, so they base their opinions on that one experience. They think that megasquirt is the best ecu ever, but until they use a real ECU they really don't know the light at the other side of the tunnel.




Let's put it this way, an e8 has 32x32 resolution which is 1024 cells to adjust, a megasquirt is 12x12 which is 144 cells to adjust...


so, if you bought 6 megasquirts it would have the same resolution as an e8... sounds like 500 bucks is a little overpriced now dont you think?
JZS_RCTS is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-23-2008, 04:22 AM   #20
annoyingrob
Senior Member
 
annoyingrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SW Calgary
Posts: 2,009
Actually, the newer MSII extra code runs 16x16, and you can stack two tables together giving you 16x32, or 32x16. I'm not going to get into a debate over what is better or not. I've seen what a megasquirt can do, and I've seen what a V-Pro can do. The v-pro can do things the MS can't and the MS can do things the V-pro can't.

And last time I checked, MSII kits were under $250.
__________________
yes.
annoyingrob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.